Member
I think you misunderstand me.
At the begining, I rewrote all the code to integrate something I like, especially the sub-catigories support. This is a very simple version without the admin part, and never released to public, since it is not tested on any other platform. I came to this forum, because I want to contribute something to zenphoto community. That's why I wrote a wp plugin for zenphoto, and also I worked on the zenphoto source code to integrated the sub-cat to it, since so many people here are asking for these features.
I want to be clear that I did these not because I want to advertise my gallery, since I never provide a link to my gallery code, and I never think of advertizing it or releasing it. All my posts and links are about the zenphoto version and for the zenphoto users.
Please don't judge me without even looking at the code.
At the begining, I rewrote all the code to integrate something I like, especially the sub-catigories support. This is a very simple version without the admin part, and never released to public, since it is not tested on any other platform. I came to this forum, because I want to contribute something to zenphoto community. That's why I wrote a wp plugin for zenphoto, and also I worked on the zenphoto source code to integrated the sub-cat to it, since so many people here are asking for these features.
I want to be clear that I did these not because I want to advertise my gallery, since I never provide a link to my gallery code, and I never think of advertizing it or releasing it. All my posts and links are about the zenphoto version and for the zenphoto users.
Please don't judge me without even looking at the code.
Member
Trisweb, zenphoto is the best of web photo album, and community of users and developpers who want to help you, increase day after day.
You write:
Zenphoto is an answer to lots of calls for an online gallery solution...
Lots of users calls for using sub cat
I wait day adfter day for these add, and Wei Chen contribute to zenphoto community by giving us a temporary solution, just temporary.
He lost time to do this, for the community, by waiting...., I don't undersant why it's not accepted.
Everybody know that zenphoto is your creation, the best of galery, and it will never change.
"dans le monde du libre la force est dans la solidarité "
You write:
Zenphoto is an answer to lots of calls for an online gallery solution...
Lots of users calls for using sub cat
I wait day adfter day for these add, and Wei Chen contribute to zenphoto community by giving us a temporary solution, just temporary.
He lost time to do this, for the community, by waiting...., I don't undersant why it's not accepted.
Everybody know that zenphoto is your creation, the best of galery, and it will never change.
"dans le monde du libre la force est dans la solidarité "
Member
Dear trisweb,
As a zenphoto user, i will speak from the perspective of a user. Personally, I believe right from the start, WeiChen's motivation to even post in this forum is to help the zenphoto community users, and that he has been misquoted by you.
I don't understand php code that much. And of all the features that WeiChen has contributed, let me just comment on two: The sub-cat and the Wordpress demo plugin.
the subcat: First of all, i don't recall WeiChen ever saying that his sub-cat coding is the ultimate answer to implementing sub-cat in zenphoto. No, far be it.
You mentioned: "please work off our own codebase and with the original code"
Is this not what he has done? His attitude is more of wanting the community to know there's a way to do it. It may be messy, it may involves lots modifying the current zenphoto code, but hey, it's a start, and it might get somewhere if more heads are added to it. If taken in this spirit, should not all coders rejoice?
the wp demo plugin: to my knowledge, WeiChen's plugin that allow zenphoto user to add a random image strip in a Wordpress post taken from any of the zenphoto albums, is the only working Wordpress plugin for zenphoto 1.0.1 beta. Surely that's another hint that his motives are that for zenphoto and its users.
I really don;t think any thunder has been stolen from zenphoto, but instead, glory has been added to it. I've followed zenphoto's development right from your very 1st comment in one of noscope.com's post till this date. zenphoto is your creation, your initiative, your baby, and will always be so.
my plead: work together, for the betterment of zenphoto and its community, for us. Thank you for listening.
As a zenphoto user, i will speak from the perspective of a user. Personally, I believe right from the start, WeiChen's motivation to even post in this forum is to help the zenphoto community users, and that he has been misquoted by you.
I don't understand php code that much. And of all the features that WeiChen has contributed, let me just comment on two: The sub-cat and the Wordpress demo plugin.
the subcat: First of all, i don't recall WeiChen ever saying that his sub-cat coding is the ultimate answer to implementing sub-cat in zenphoto. No, far be it.
You mentioned: "please work off our own codebase and with the original code"
Is this not what he has done? His attitude is more of wanting the community to know there's a way to do it. It may be messy, it may involves lots modifying the current zenphoto code, but hey, it's a start, and it might get somewhere if more heads are added to it. If taken in this spirit, should not all coders rejoice?
the wp demo plugin: to my knowledge, WeiChen's plugin that allow zenphoto user to add a random image strip in a Wordpress post taken from any of the zenphoto albums, is the only working Wordpress plugin for zenphoto 1.0.1 beta. Surely that's another hint that his motives are that for zenphoto and its users.
I really don;t think any thunder has been stolen from zenphoto, but instead, glory has been added to it. I've followed zenphoto's development right from your very 1st comment in one of noscope.com's post till this date. zenphoto is your creation, your initiative, your baby, and will always be so.
my plead: work together, for the betterment of zenphoto and its community, for us. Thank you for listening.
Member
I'll just say this - I have implemented sub-cats via WeiChen's code and as far as I can tell the overall modifications are less than 1% of the actual Zenphoto code. If I'm not mistaken all it is is a small modification to the album.php and index.php files in the themes directory. Everything else (including zen.css and everyting in the zen directory) remain the same. I think there has been a miscommunication. Even though I am using sub-categories my site still remains a "Zenphoto" site.
As it stands I think this implementation works as a sort of stop-gap for people that need sub-cats. If you view my site (http://rockpaperpixels.com/zenphoto) it's clear why I needed sub-cats, however a number of administrative functions are useless using this implementation (drag and drop photo organization, descriptions, etc...) - these functions are pretty important, so for now I'm using sub-cats in it's current form only because I have to.
fwiw, I'm working on making the admin functions work with the sub-cat implementation, within the zenphoto code.
As it stands I think this implementation works as a sort of stop-gap for people that need sub-cats. If you view my site (http://rockpaperpixels.com/zenphoto) it's clear why I needed sub-cats, however a number of administrative functions are useless using this implementation (drag and drop photo organization, descriptions, etc...) - these functions are pretty important, so for now I'm using sub-cats in it's current form only because I have to.
fwiw, I'm working on making the admin functions work with the sub-cat implementation, within the zenphoto code.
Member
I can understand frustration on both sides, and I think that this is a case of mis-communication, I understand that trisweb does not want people hacking out zen-photo when he is working on the same thing. I can see why WeiChen is frustrated because, he has not been well recieved however, I think trisweb was confused the same way that I was at first, weichen has two different things, zenphoto with sub-cats added and a greatly modified version of zp that would not be as flexible to continue development on.
I can also see how the wording of things could be offensive, "sub-cats done" or whatever it was, makes it seem like, "here, it is done, add it to your code" when, trisweb wants to do his own, more complete, version.
What I have loved about zenphoto is that everything is soo well thought out and planned that it works exactly how it should and, I think that is how trisweb will eventualy implement sub-cats and that is not how weichen's implementation works, it is just something to get people by.
I can also see how the wording of things could be offensive, "sub-cats done" or whatever it was, makes it seem like, "here, it is done, add it to your code" when, trisweb wants to do his own, more complete, version.
What I have loved about zenphoto is that everything is soo well thought out and planned that it works exactly how it should and, I think that is how trisweb will eventualy implement sub-cats and that is not how weichen's implementation works, it is just something to get people by.
Member
I just think there has been some disrespectful ways of saying things. WeiChen has no doubt made some nice contributions but not in the way that this forum is used to seeing. I'd like to see him added to the dev team the same way LuckySpin was...hopefully both sides can get past what has happened.
Member
Just to throw my two pennth in. I think that there's been a bit of a misunderstanding.
As I read WeiChen's post, the gallery which he is currently running on his site is barely 10% zenphoto, however, the code he has released with the sub-cats implemented IS zenphoto, just with the appropriate hacks applied.
I've noticed that sub-cats seems to be a bit of a thorny issue round here - I suspect that it's because the developers know it's a much saught after feature, but have yet to come up with a satisfactory way to implement it.
Can I make a suggestion to Trisweb, and the other developers. How about putting up a sticky which explains that sub-cats are very much towards the top of the feature wish-list, but the following issues need to be overcome before it is implemented. And then list said issues. That way, boneheads like me won't keep requesting sub-cats, and those who have the skills can have a go at submiting patches to implement sub-cats.
As I read WeiChen's post, the gallery which he is currently running on his site is barely 10% zenphoto, however, the code he has released with the sub-cats implemented IS zenphoto, just with the appropriate hacks applied.
I've noticed that sub-cats seems to be a bit of a thorny issue round here - I suspect that it's because the developers know it's a much saught after feature, but have yet to come up with a satisfactory way to implement it.
Can I make a suggestion to Trisweb, and the other developers. How about putting up a sticky which explains that sub-cats are very much towards the top of the feature wish-list, but the following issues need to be overcome before it is implemented. And then list said issues. That way, boneheads like me won't keep requesting sub-cats, and those who have the skills can have a go at submiting patches to implement sub-cats.
Member
According to me, it's not so a "sub-cat implementation problem" going on in here. The problem is much more about releasing an application under a GPL licence : are you wiling to allow people to make changes to your application or not ? If you have no problem with people releasing alternate versions of your application then you have nothing to say to WeiChen.
But, even if you use GPL, you are still releasing the genuine ZenPhoto so, I really don't know why everyone is focusing on this issue ...
The best way to prevent this kind of problem is to have some place where all the development under way is descripted, where the latest files are available and where contributors can communicate with the core development team (just like in SourceForge)...
Maybe it could be possible to allow plugins to be created for ZenPhoto (LightBox plugin, WeiChen SubCat plugin, WeiChen Slideshow plugin, etc.) ? It could be a clearer solution ?
BTW, thanks to Trisweb for ZenPhoto. I'm looking forward to the next release :-)
But, even if you use GPL, you are still releasing the genuine ZenPhoto so, I really don't know why everyone is focusing on this issue ...
The best way to prevent this kind of problem is to have some place where all the development under way is descripted, where the latest files are available and where contributors can communicate with the core development team (just like in SourceForge)...
Maybe it could be possible to allow plugins to be created for ZenPhoto (LightBox plugin, WeiChen SubCat plugin, WeiChen Slideshow plugin, etc.) ? It could be a clearer solution ?
BTW, thanks to Trisweb for ZenPhoto. I'm looking forward to the next release :-)
Member
Member
Member
Wow! What a brouhaha! Let's all dial it back a bit! Sorry I've been quiet on this front, but I've been away in the UK. Back now.. so will try to catch up. Some quick thoughts:
- Yes, we know sub cats is top of the list. I will take a look at the code from WeiChen as soon as I can.
- We certainly don't want to exclude or push away good code that can make ZP better.
- We are open to adding ppl to the team. The general way this works is like all other open source projects. Submit patches against the SVN repo for us to evaluate. If we like it, it goes in. Keep doing that and you can make it onto the team. Patches are our friend!
- Yes, we know sub cats is top of the list. I will take a look at the code from WeiChen as soon as I can.
- We certainly don't want to exclude or push away good code that can make ZP better.
- We are open to adding ppl to the team. The general way this works is like all other open source projects. Submit patches against the SVN repo for us to evaluate. If we like it, it goes in. Keep doing that and you can make it onto the team. Patches are our friend!
Developer
Okay everyone, first I'd like to apologize for any misunderstanding I may have had, and for being absent from this board for the last couple days.
First, I am being slow and lazy in implementing features that are being requested. I realize this, and I apologize. I'm a Computer Science student at UC Berkeley for pete's sake, and it's the 4th week of instruction and the workload is picking up. I also have paying jobs which unfortunately have to take precedence.
Second, I am a control freak. I know I've GPL'd the whole thing, and I respect the GPL, and I certainly stand behind every word of the license. You are allowed anything and everything granted to you therein (bleh, sounds so legal ;-). However, I own this web site, I own the developer site on berlios, I own the copyright on the logos and the name, and I really like to believe that I have control over where the application is going and how it's built. Without that sort of central control, I believe open source applications generally fall to disorder, especially in the user interface. Take Mozilla and Netscape as an example; the Netscape "commercial branch" of Mozilla allowed paid developers full access to the UI, and it became disorganized and cluttered. When Firefox came around, those UI features were finely controlled by a small team, and indeed led by a single person who finalized most of the decisions. I believe in quality and I believe in a small team doing it better.
So I want it to stay organized and central, as a general philosophy of development. You are still welcome to branch it, fork it, edit it for your own use, or whatever. But I want a [i]small, highly selective, quality-oriented team[/i] to make all final decisions about the program.
So this is why I'm reluctant to add WeiChen's code--because I don't have time to look at it, and I'm not ready to accept it just because "it works." It's got to be some top quality stuff to get into this codebase, and that kind of code review takes time that I don't have.
Whew! Now that you all know my development philosophy, hopefully we can all come to terms with its speed ;-)
I'd like to add WeiChen to the development team at a low level for now (and definitely look at the changes he's made, as Luckyspin said); once we've reviewed his code and such, he can move up. Luckyspin went through the same process.
But don't get me wrong; I'd love the help and development support, but I'm just very hesitant to make the team larger because of what I've said above.
And yes, of course it is a matter of pride as well. Zenphoto is "my" project, and I want pretty strict control over it. Someday I might let that go, but not for a long time. And I really apologize that I'm slowing things down, because I know I am. I'm just not going to give up the quality to satisfy everyone's patience. Hopefully I can find a happy medium
Thank you all for your insightful comments, I appreciate your thoughtfulness and understanding.
First, I am being slow and lazy in implementing features that are being requested. I realize this, and I apologize. I'm a Computer Science student at UC Berkeley for pete's sake, and it's the 4th week of instruction and the workload is picking up. I also have paying jobs which unfortunately have to take precedence.
Second, I am a control freak. I know I've GPL'd the whole thing, and I respect the GPL, and I certainly stand behind every word of the license. You are allowed anything and everything granted to you therein (bleh, sounds so legal ;-). However, I own this web site, I own the developer site on berlios, I own the copyright on the logos and the name, and I really like to believe that I have control over where the application is going and how it's built. Without that sort of central control, I believe open source applications generally fall to disorder, especially in the user interface. Take Mozilla and Netscape as an example; the Netscape "commercial branch" of Mozilla allowed paid developers full access to the UI, and it became disorganized and cluttered. When Firefox came around, those UI features were finely controlled by a small team, and indeed led by a single person who finalized most of the decisions. I believe in quality and I believe in a small team doing it better.
So I want it to stay organized and central, as a general philosophy of development. You are still welcome to branch it, fork it, edit it for your own use, or whatever. But I want a [i]small, highly selective, quality-oriented team[/i] to make all final decisions about the program.
So this is why I'm reluctant to add WeiChen's code--because I don't have time to look at it, and I'm not ready to accept it just because "it works." It's got to be some top quality stuff to get into this codebase, and that kind of code review takes time that I don't have.
Whew! Now that you all know my development philosophy, hopefully we can all come to terms with its speed ;-)
I'd like to add WeiChen to the development team at a low level for now (and definitely look at the changes he's made, as Luckyspin said); once we've reviewed his code and such, he can move up. Luckyspin went through the same process.
But don't get me wrong; I'd love the help and development support, but I'm just very hesitant to make the team larger because of what I've said above.And yes, of course it is a matter of pride as well. Zenphoto is "my" project, and I want pretty strict control over it. Someday I might let that go, but not for a long time. And I really apologize that I'm slowing things down, because I know I am. I'm just not going to give up the quality to satisfy everyone's patience. Hopefully I can find a happy medium
Thank you all for your insightful comments, I appreciate your thoughtfulness and understanding.
Member
Member
To trisweb and luckyspin: thanks for being understanding and clearing things up! study and work come first no doubt. take all the time and apply whatever discretion you deem fit. i'm with zenphoto all the way
to Weichen: hope you've found closure to this little episode of mis-communication, and continue to thrive in this ever-expanding community of zenphoto. i'm sure your contributions, big or small, will eventually be appreciated. i know i do. cheers.
to Weichen: hope you've found closure to this little episode of mis-communication, and continue to thrive in this ever-expanding community of zenphoto. i'm sure your contributions, big or small, will eventually be appreciated. i know i do. cheers.