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image default title

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  • gjunk Member
    In the case at hand - the camera is stuffing the exif:ImageDescription field with the camera make and model ... which is weird.
  • gjunk Member
    Aside - you said ImageMagick is supported in svn trunk - is it supposed to say something about that ?

    On the overview tab I have:
    Graphics support: PHP GD library bundled (2.0.34 compatible)

    no mention of ImageMagick ... which is def installed on the server - I did rerun setup but nothing changed.

    Thanks.

    gene/
  • acrylian Administrator, Developer
    You can enable it on the options > image tab if your server supports it.
  • gjunk Member
    Hmmm ... i dont see anything there ... but server most definitely has it installed and available .. I can run it by hand from a shell.

    Logging in to webserver I have this:

    $ rpm -q ImageMagick
    ImageMagick-6.4.0.10-2

    $ which identify
    /usr/bin/identify

    $ which convert
    /usr/bin/convert

    So its definitely available on the server ...

    Any suggestions what I can do to make it be recognized ?
  • kagutsuchi Member
    It requires the Imagick PHP extension, not just ImageMagick. I've considered making a command line version (after finishing Gmagick support), so that may come in the future for servers with ImageMagick but not Imagick.
  • gjunk Member
    That sounds good ... I'll look into the php imagmagick extension ...
  • gjunk Member
    Looks like there is both

    php-pecl-imagick

    and also a

    php-pecl-gmagick

    Do I need both of these ?

    (They will be installed this eve .. )

    Thanks for help.
  • gjunk Member
    After installing php-pecl-imagick it now shows up as an option ..
    thanks
  • mcloaked Member
    I seem to see the same problem with some of the albums in the same version of zen that gjunk is using. However it is certainly camera dependent, and in those cases where the field EXIF:ImageDescription is wrongly filled by the camera then the file name in the album is the name of the camera which is not a great default. I accept that strictly this is not a zen issue but it would be nice if the default were to be to use a pre-existing filename where it exists, rather than take it from the exif data.
  • sbillard Member
    Most users would prefer to use the data they carefully placed into their image metadata rather than have the filename override it. This is not something we will change in zenphoto. As discussed in this thread there are actions that you can take to correct this going anywhere from correcting the data in your images to implementing a plugin that will store your chosen data in the database.

    Perhaps the best would be a proper maker script for the camera. However we are not in a position to be able to create these for any and every camera. If someone with the camera provides the maker code we will be glad to add it to the list.
  • mcloaked Member
    I am not sure what you mean by the maker code - but I am happy to extract it from the exif data for one of the cameras where I have this problem.

    The best I can find is:

    exif:Model: DiMAGE Xt

    and

    exif:Make: Minolta Co., Ltd.
    exif:MakerNote: 9, 0, 0, 0, 7, 0, 4, 0, 0, 0, 77, 76, 89, 48, 136, 0, 4, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 61, 56, 0, 0, 137, 0, 4, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 78, 84, 0, 0, 0, 1, 4, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 4, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 2, 1, 4, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 2, 0, 0, 0, 3, 1, 4, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 7, 0, 0, 0, 4, 1, 10, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 238, 4, 0, 0, 0, 15, 7, 0, 238, 1, 0, 0, 246, 4, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 10, 0, 0, 0, 1, 41, 2, 1, 2, 201, 0, 0, 0, 0, 255, 0, 0, 0, 25, 97, 18, 49, 0, 0, 129, 209, 0, 0, 18, 27, 0, 0, 253, 44, 0, 1, 250, 88, 0, 0, 168, 200, 0, 0, 84, 161, 0, 0, 86, 206, 1, 44, 1, 181, 0, 160, 0, 29, 0, 0, 92, 1, 0, 0, 2, 140, 0, 0, 10, 209, 0, 0, 0, 5, 11, 11, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 3, 0, 0, 0, 48, 19, 0, 0, 74, 1, 18, 97, 0, 80, 10, 209, 0, 0, 10, 88, 0, 69, 5, 50, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 59, 16, 0, 0, 10, 34, 34, 34, 34, 15, 217, 16, 58, 19, 156, 1, 179, 17, 17, 17, 17, 1, 238, 3, 186, 0, 0, 1, 154, 2, 0, 1, 137, 1, 245, 2, 1, 1, 0, 160, 85, 0, 1, 3, 82, 0, 0, 0, 15, 0, 29, 0, 9, 0, 7, 0, 10, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 29, 0, 9, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 175, 1, 107, 1, 235, 2, 134, 3, 49, 3, 3, 1, 41, 2, 1, 2, 201, 0, 0, 10, 239, 11, 83, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 136, 136, 1, 0, 0, 204, 16, 68, 49, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 2, 99, 2, 141, 2, 158, 2, 82, 208, 0, 0, 205, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 4, 219, 5, 160, 5, 250, 5, 48, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 15, 190, 18, 162, 19, 207, 17, 97, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 119, 119, 119, 119, 26, 31, 24, 30, 26, 31, 18, 29, 16, 25, 100, 0, 13, 0, 0, 2, 0, 0, 66, 56, 2, 2, 104, 11, 50, 7, 238, 27, 5, 66, 0, 100, 24, 31, 100, 69, 30, 31, 31, 31, 1, 164, 1, 200, 1, 141, 2, 58, 0, 0, 0, 75, 0, 53, 0, 32, 1, 137, 1, 245, 102, 102, 102, 102, 0, 0, 0, 8, 0, 0, 0, 9, 0, 0, 0, 10

    This was using the "identify --verbose" command on an image from the camera.

    and also:
    exif:ImageDescription: MINOLTA DIGITAL CAMERA

    If there is any other data that can be extracted for adding to your list I will try to provide it?
  • Blue Dragonfly Member
    Mcloaked, the maker code sbillard refers to is in the /zp-core/exif/makers folder. There are files to parse camera-specific details for various manufacturers. I'm not particularly familiar with this code, but it looks like adding a parser for Minolta could accomplish what you're looking for, by mapping the correct camera-specific fields to the standard fields. For example, your camera is reporting the camera name "MINOLTA DIGITAL CAMERA" as the "ImageDescription". ZenPhoto correctly detects a value for ImageDescription and shows it. The problem is, your camera is putting that value in the wrong place, and thus filling your gallery with many images with the same unhelpful title.

    Making a Minolta maker script would correct this.
  • gjunk Member
    1) Help - how to flush the bad exif data out of zen ?

    I edited the exif:ImageDescription and removed the offending camera make/model .

    Went back to zen and it still shows the camera name.

    Went to overview and pressed refresh meta data - after a some time it finished. Problem persists.

    I even refreshed database ..

    How do I make zen pick up the newly edited (now empty) exif:ImageDescription field ?

    2) I like the idea of using exif data - can you say which fields are used?

    a) ImageDescription mapes to title ?

    b) what maps to a lengthier description of the image ?

    Thanks.
  • gjunk Member
    Curious what you all think the pros and cons of the 2 approaches are:

    a) Get a maker script for every possible camera with a problem - as each case presents itself.

    b) add an option that any user can use to skip exif data for titles on an album by album basis.
  • Blue Dragonfly Member
    gjunk - I think what would be "easiest" depends on the scenario. If a site allows uploads by many users, then option 1 is best, as it will allow most users to upload images with proper metadata and get the full functionality, while allowing exceptions for specific "rogue" cameras. But if a site is populated with images by a single person, such as a photographer uploading to his/her own site, then obviously I can see the argument for it just being easier to turn off EXIF reading. However, why would that be desirable on a per-album basis? I would think it would be needed site-wide, or on a per-user basis (on the theory that a perticular user would have the issue).

    On the other hand, as a programmer, I lean toward the "let's make a script for that camera" so that it can be done "right", and thus help all users with that camera model. I'd be happy to look into this, but it won't be too soon. I currently have a few jobs I'm working to finish up, and PHP is not one of my primary languages.
  • Blue Dragonfly Member
    I created a ticket for this: http://www.zenphoto.org/trac/ticket/1508

    If nobody else gets to it before I have a chance in a week or two, I'll tackle it myself.
  • gjunk Member
    Thanks!

    I was thinking per album as I imagined all (most) images in each album probably came from same camera - but a different album may be a newer (better) camera without the bad exif data problem - so problem albums could easily be switched to ignore it.

    Since I find the concept of using metadata very attractive I would not want it to be off per site, or def not for all users. Just seemed like a simple solution with low maintenance!

    Thanks for thoughts and help.

    Any suggestions how I can make zen lose its memory and refresh new metadata (as per above) ?

    Thank you !!

    gene/
    (aka gjunk)
  • Blue Dragonfly Member
    I think managing per-album metadata exclusions would be a lot more trouble than it's worth, leading to potentially more confusion as to why the data shows up for some pics but not for others. There's already a button to refresh metadata for the gallery or for a specific album. Once the Minolta maker script is done, refreshing will update all that metadata as well.
  • gjunk Member
    I pressed the refresh meta data button in overview but the memory of the old exif:ImageDescription field (which was edited out and is now blank) lives on somewhere in zen - refresh did not clear it.
  • acrylian Administrator, Developer
    Refreshing meta data will of course not clear your already wrong set image titles. (then it would delete it for anyone everytime!). you have to edit the title field manually. Or you have to reupload the images so Zenphoto considers them as new.
  • gjunk Member
    Oh poop - I guess I can delete the entire site - and start over.
  • gjunk Member
    Wait - what if the metadata is changed manually in an image (edited or deleted) - refreshing metadata wont pick it up ?

    Then what does refresh metadata actually do - if not read and update the metadata ?
  • acrylian Administrator, Developer
    It does that but only for hte meta data database fields, not for the normal image title and description fields.
  • gjunk Member
    Maybe I understand - does zen have a flag to indicate whether title information etc came from metadata or came from user direct input into zen ?

    If not - i understand the behaviour.
  • acrylian Administrator, Developer
    No, it does not flag from where the data in hte normal fields come from. On initial import Zenphoto uses the exif title for the image title of course but not on refresh as that could override manual changes which is mostly not wanted.

    Btw, you don't need to delete the whole site. Just move the albums out of the albums folder. Then access the site and they are gone for Zenphoto. Now move them back and Zenphoto will import them new and uses the meta data if available again.
  • gjunk Member
    Okidok - thank you - I will hide the albums directories and put them back after zen processes their absence ..
  • sbillard Member
    Well, actually, if the metadata has changed, Zenphoto will update its database. Unfortunately, you are experiencing the one "exception" to that. Setting the data to empty is roughtly equivalent to not having such data. Zenphoto only uses "real" data for setting the title. There are a number of sources for the title in the metadata. If any are proivded then they will become the database tile. Otherwise the existing title will remain.
  • gjunk Member
    Ah that makes perfect sense ... thank you. And good to know it will pick up additions/changes (rather than deletions).

    Can you say which fields exactly are used for titles and also desriptions ?

    I am thinking it might be possible to make a table of all titles and descriptions and then scripting a bulk edit to read that table and create good metadata for the corresponding image files.
  • sbillard Member
    Best to look up the class-image method `updateMetaData()` as the ultimate athority on this sort of thing. Titles come from `IPTCObjectName`, `IPTCImageHeadline`, and `EXIFDescription` in that priority order.
  • gjunk Member
    The IPTC caption fields seem to be at least according to be:

    according to http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/TagNames/IPTC.html

    Caption-Abstract
    LocalCaption
    RasterizedCaption

    The first 2 are ignored by zen and the 3rd seems to require being >= 7360 bytes long.

    Could you tell me exactly which field I need to set to get the caption picked up by zen.

    Setting EXIF:ImageDescription is picked up for title as you suggested.

    thanks.
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